War tourism: Vietnam’s new industry

I am really torn with this article – because there are parts I really agree with but, for the most part, it absolutely misses the point.

Firstly, the “where are you from” question is asked to everyone here. It’s a Vietnamese standard and Americans are treated as well as everyone else.

The question has absolutely nothing to do with the Vietnam/American war. Ask any number of the American expats who have settled in the North of South and they will tell you.

For the record I am a Brit living in Hanoi.

Secondly the war is of no interest to Vietnamese. The demographic of this young country means that most people were born after the war. Vietnam has moved on, except…

There’s money in the war. And the reason there is money in the war is because so many tourists are obsessed by it. War tourism is not driven by the Vietnamese – it has taken them a while to realise that is, sadly, what tourists want.

Thirdly, one of the reasons that people who visit continue to be obsessed by the war is that every journalists who turns up here also just can’t help themselves.

Does Hayley Mortimer not see the irony of travelling all the way to Vietnam, over 30 years after the end of the war, writing an article about said war, which points at the Vietnamese and says THEY are still obsessed by war.

To go back to that quote:

“Even when purchasing a bottle of water from a street seller you may be met with the hostile question, “Where are you from?” I can only assume that if you answer America, you will be treated with even more hostility”

What do you mean – even more hostility? Even more than what?

Finally, what I do agree with is that the likes of the Cu Chi tunnels are awful. Especially all that gun firing. But they are popular with tourists. Tourists – fuelled, no doubt, by yet more travel journalism that is incapable of not mentioning the war.

Not sure where you got the idea you could shoot animals for a price. The local Vietnamese wouldn’t know where to get their hands on an AK-47 much less a B40 rocket launcher.

Cu Chi allows shooting only because it’s run by the army, the only people who have access to weaponry in Vietnam.

I think your own obsession with the war is affecting your tourism experience, particularly if you think people asking “where you are from?” is anything more than curiosity. They aren’t going to treat you any different should you answer American. Never had any disdain for my nationality before.

It sounds to me as if it’s the writer with the war obsession, and not the country. Does she really think that the vendors are asking where she’s from because they’re jotting down notes on how many Americans are visiting? Could it be that they’re just practicing one of the few phrases they know? Being kind? Passing the time on an otherwise mundane afternoon?

It’s the Cu Chi tunnels. Of course it’s war tourism. Using that as a jumping off point to posit that these kinds of tourists are taking over the country is not only ridiculous, but insulting to the many other tourism industries present in Vietnam.

Taking a packaged tour to the Cu Chi tunnels and making a few (incorrect) personal observations about the American dollar and Zippo lighters does not make for a very useful or insightful article.

What utter rubbish.

I’ve lived in Vietnam for 4 years and I have never been met with hostility due solely to being a foreigner, its normally only when I’ve done something wrong. People in Vietnam are warm and open, and are generally pleased and interested to meet people from a foreign country.

Their capacity for forgiveness is pretty amazing given what their country has been through, but they appear to have a natural understand that what a country’s government may do is not necessarily the wish of the people.

Everything in Vietnam is charged in the official currency, the Vietnamese dong (except perhaps when renting a house or apartment) and many shops and businesses are reluctant to take dollars.

As for ‘thriving off the remnants of war’, given the millions of pounds of unexploded ordinance that continue to maim and cripple, and the birth defects still experienced thanks to the dioxin dropped on the country I’d have thought you could have chosen your words more sensitively.

To be honest on the basis of this article I have to question whether the writer has ever been to Vietnam at all?

I can only assume that if you answer America, you will be treated with even more hostility.

No. That is not all you could assume. In fact, you don’t need to assume at all. Did you speak to any Americans who live there? Did you do any basic research on this at all? As an American who has lived in Vietnam for more than five years, I can tell you that your statement is ridiculous. I am sincerely embarrassed for you when reading it. In my time here, I have received far more dismissiveness and hostility from other expats and travelers concerning my American citizenship than I have from any Vietnamese national. I’ve frequented the home’s of aging widows who lost fathers, brothers, husbands, and sons, and never once have I had anything approaching hostility directed my way. Even when the topic of the war comes up, it is a deep sorrow that fills their words. Not hate. Not bitterness. Those who lived through those years of conflict welcome me and every American I have been in the company of. There is a legitimate relief that youth around them can sit side-by-side with their previous enemy and never have to experience the suffering that defined much of their own lives.

You missed the mark, and you missed it badly.

Just out of curiosity, I’m wondering if the writer visited the same Vietnam I lived in for almost three years? The one west of Cambodia/Lao and south of China?

Because I never once felt ‘ashamed to be white’. I didn’t find that ‘bitterness is still present.’ I was often asked where I was from, but never with hostility. And when I answered ‘America’ I got big grins and thumbs-up — especially in Saigon, where many middle-aged and older folks have fond memories of American teachers, employers, and colleagues.

Vietnam, to most Vietnamese, is not a ‘blood-stained’ land but a young developing country hurtling towards ‘modernity’. The average age is less than 30 years old; these kids have no memory of war, of ‘death and destruction’ — they’re only looking towards the future. They don’t hate ‘white’ people — they embrace foreign cultures (Western and, yes, American especially).

Did it occur to the writer that Vietnamese are selling war trinkets and time with guns and ammo precisely because they *have* moved on, psychologically, for the most part? Or that they’re simply responding to demand? You can pay to fire ammo in Cambodia and buy a planter made out of an American bomb casing in Lao — are the people of these countries also ‘exploiting their harsh history’, or just making a buck however they can? (Does the writer feel ashamed to be white when he/she travels there too?) In the spirit of, you know, American-style capitalism.

(Also, ‘war tourism’ in Vietnam is not exactly a story. It’s been going on for years — something the writer could’ve found out by simply consulting an LP guide.)

I’m no starry-eyed Vietnam lover; I can’t say I particularly enjoyed my years there and I was happy to move on (though I enjoy visiting now). But this is one irresponsible piece of travel journalism. And I use the word ‘journalism’ with hesitation.

A naïeve and ill researched article. Why is this rubbish published?

What utter nonsense. ‘Where are you from’ is not a hostile question, and as for your shame at being white – there are many other places where you could legitimately feel that. Don’t be so fatuous.

Vietnam’s war was an enormous and formative event in it’s history. Don’t knock people for wanting to learn about how people lived during it. As for those fools who think that crass war tourism is all Vietnam has to offer the traveller, you are very obviously one of their number.

The war was over nearly 40 years ago. People have moved on and did so many years ago. I managed to spend a glorious month there 16 years ago without encountering either hostility or visiting the attractions you mention. I suggest you return with a more open mind – and eyes.

I just wanted to add:

“For $15 you can shoot a chicken with an AK-47. For $50 you can shoot a pig with a M16. And for $200 you can fire a B40 rocket launcher at a cow.”

This is pure backpacker myth and it suggests that the writer did little more than sit in a hostel or a bar taking notes. I’ve heard it many many times but there is no truth in it what so ever.

The shooting of animals is not a myth, having been asked myself if I wanted to ride off into a neighbouring town…

I am sorry if my article came across as an attack on the Vietnamese and their obsession on the war, this story was purely written on the basis of my disgust that people even want to shoot a gun over there… I actually state that I agree with the Vietnamese being able to profit from the war, I have local friends out there that work as tour guides subject to the war and they are very humbling to the fact that the tourism helps their economy.

Maybe it is because some people have not witnessed with their own eyes the thirst of tourists wanting to shoot a gun that stirs this debate… I was brought to tears whilst standing at the Cu Chi Tunnels watching Westerners joke and play with ex army guns whilst I was inspired and enlightened by the stories from the area.

This is an account of a personal experience, and the “where are you from” happened to me and I saw first hand the attitude he had towards me until I said I was UK.

Being ashamed to be white was a feeling I had having just stepped out of the War Remnants Museum, a place filled with horrific images of the War. Now I think any person thrown into seeing that much would feel some kind of emotion wouldn’t you? And yes I myself felt ashamed to visit a country and be obsessed about finding out about the war when I later realised there is so much more it has to offer. Is that such a crime? I think not…

This is opinion. Based on personal experience. People have different experiences when they visit places. If everybody felt the same, the world would be a boring place.

Vietnam is amazing. I can’t begin to tell you what a time I had there, I could have written an article less controversial, but I am glad that this has got such a response.

A really interesting article….and clearly it’s stirred up a lot of debate.
Such an interesting issue…! i let the debate continue – but let’s play nice, the world would be a boring place if we didnt disagree….

You can read Hayley’s response above mine – site is taking a while for the comments to update today!

Hayley explains her reasoning, research and experiences which will hopefully answer your questions etc etc.

thanks,

Haley I think someone was teasing you about shooting cows with an AK47.

If that actually happened don’t you think it’d be all over YouTube or Flickr or whatever. I looked, I can’t find anything.

Did you really find that “bitterness was ever present”?

To give you the benefit of the doubt you may have meant to write an article saying one thing but some clumsy phrasing and inaccuracies have left it sounding more like an attack on Vietnam and the Vietnamese than tourists.

Extraordinary.

The Cu Chi tunnels are really only as popular as they are because they’re one lazy bus ride from Saigon. I feel sorry for anyone who thinks a scramble down a widened tunnel sums up Vietnam.

I never spent one dollar in Vietnam. Dollars are more widely accepted in Cambodia – perhaps the author’s countries got mixed up.

I was made to feel welcome during my entire time in Vietnam, all the way up the Ho Chi Minh trail. To many schoolchildren, “where are you from” is completely interchangeable with “hello” – hardly an interrogation.

A Vietnamese man I met near Da Lat was pro-Bush. I met a motorbike driver, now a friend, who fought with the US in the South during the war.

To most Vietnamese, the only value in spent ammunition is as scrap metal or an obstruction in farmland.

I mainly feel sorry for the author as her experience of Vietnam sounds so incredibly narrow – and that’s sad.

I think this article is ridiculous, but as a side note, tourism businesses prefer for tourists to pay in dollars than dong. Hotels, tailors, tourist-oriented shops, etc. take both dong and dollars and give a better rate if you pay in dollars.

This is not true for businesses that are not tourist facing.

Steve, I have just had a look at your website and admire your passion for Vietnam, it really is a beautiful place, and I met people out there that I now call my friends.

As for the bitterness, I would just like to clear up my incident… I went to purchase a bottle of water from a street vendor and he snapped “where are you from where are you from” not in a curious way, it was actually quite offending. When I answered England anger turned to smiles “ok ok my friend”

Please can we remove the focus from Vietnams attitude to the war and focus on what my article was actually about…. The Western World’s fasination with war. Yes I myself visited Vietnam in the interest of finding out about the war, something I am now ashamed of. Because Vietnam is more than the war. Is is wrong that it disgusted me that people actually want to shoot a gun over there? Thats what this is all about.

Anyone who agrees with the mentality of someone who visits a country with a history of war with the intention to shoot a gun is just as bad!

Oh and Hel, don’t patronise me with your “oh gosh I have loads of feeling blah blah blah”
My accuracy is based on personal experience. There are worse articles out there than mine which attack the Vietnamese.

It is ignorant and naive to think that everyone in Vietnam has moved on, maybe I just bumped into the handful that still hold some bitterness.

“There are worse articles out there than mine”

Not many.

I have been in Vietnam for the last three weeks and have not seen the Vietnam mentioned in this article. My experience has been very different.

Today in fact, a young woman in a shop asked me where I and my companion were from. He said Ireland and I said the US. The woman then said she liked the US better!

I do think that in some places (Hoi An, for one) where tourism is so prevalent, one can get the feeling of being treated like a walking ATM machine. But that has nothing to do with the war, and hasn’t made me ashamed of my skin color. I grew up working in the tourism industry in my popular weekend getaway hometown, and that’s just how the jaded workers treat tourists. It doesn’t have to do with skin color or war histories.

This just seems like a poor excuse from the writer to have an “angle” to gripe about her bad experience in Vietnam.

I would just like to add that I am sorry to anyone I have offended, and I have extremely fond memories of Vietnam.

Julie – I beg you not to make preconceptions about myself and of my travels bearing in mind that you have no idea who I am. I learnt more about the war whilst out there than from any preconceptions I had! Infact I went there completely open minded.

If I wrote just another story about Vietnam would it be read? Probably not. I have as much if not more to say about Vietnam being a beautiful place but unfortunately there are people who have experiences like mine.

Oh and Nath…. have a little look online, there are articles that would offend all of us.

But that’s exactly what you said in your comments. You said you wrote about your feelings. Personal feelings are not the way to paint an accurate picture of a place. I guess that’s not your fault, whole sections of the media have forgotten that these days.
This fascination is a sad little loop. Visiting journalists write and write about it and people stay obsessed with it, and more people write about it. Meanwhile does anyone care that some two million died under the Japanese occupation of Vietnam and now think it noteworthy that tens of thousands live and do business in the nation and are subject to relatively little hostility? That after over 100 years of colonial rule the French are still welcome here? No one writes that story.
Meanwhile the inhabitants of this “formerly war-torn nation”; “land of death and destruction”; “blood-soaked something something sad something” just get on with things. And a few make money off the war and dumb tourists who have all the sensitivity of bad talk show hosts.
Anyway it could be worse. At least you didn’t have fantasies of being hunted by the VC whilst ambling round the jungle garden of your five-star resort (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/asia/vietnam/6468118/Vietnam-the-rewards-of-peace.html).
Now he really should know better. Tosser.

Hayley,

So you’ve dropped the shooting a cow with an AK47 thing.

And now you’re starting to think that the bitter and hostile people we’re just the ones you met and it’s not “clear” that it is “ever present” as you previously wrote.

“My accuracy is based on personal experience”

That is no sense of accuracy unless it is clearly marked as just your experience and it isn’t. You make general sweeping falsehoods backed by one off encounters.

In short, at best you jumped to conclusions, and believed people who were, most likely, teasing you.

Saying your article is not the worst out there – is not much of a justification is it?

Zactly Steve.The “we all have different opinions” school of thought has moved away from a liberal idea that different opinion and takes on things are worthwhile and into “I don’t need to be held responsible for what I say” because damn, it’s yr opinion!
Your summation is a nice one.

Can we all agree to disagree.

Just like any country in the world, any film you may watch, any book you might read… People have different experiences.

It is clear that I didn’t have such as good an experience as some of you, and that is a shame. Although putting all the war tourism aside I loved Vietnam and the people.

I hope I have justified and explained the reasons for my thoughts and opinions on the matter and apologise once again to anyone I may have offended.

I have not changed my views in that it is a shame that people only visit Vietnam in the interest of the war and that people should be ashamed that they have felt the need to shoot a gun over there… That was the basis of this article.

Steve – I am just saying that if you find my article offensive, take a look at some others which I have come across.

Hel – I completely agree that people easily forget about other nations involved and previous history of Vietnam, but unfortuately its the America/Vietnam which makes it into the films and therefore into the public domain.

Lastly, it’s probably better to let tourists shoot the cattle than go scavenging for the remainders of bombs dropped by the Americans. That’s a really bad way to make money outta the war. More people were killed today I hear.

Can we all agree to disagree.[sic]

Agreeing to disagree is not at all what these comments are about. You’ve made several claims that, due to their phrasing, are not at all about interpretation or value judgments. They are factually incorrect at worst, and irresponsible rendering of experiences at best.

1) The Dollar is NOT used more than the Dong. It’s not even close.

2) The presumption of bitterness is grossly misguided. I won’t rehash your assertion that American identity somehow increases this, as the more general premise is fundamentally unsound to begin with. Had you said that you found your interactions with Vietnamese to be infused with some sort of bitterness, we’d have sighed and lamented that another travel writer jumped to conclusions without knowing the place well. You’d have had plenty of company, but it wouldn’t have been as irresponsible as taking that off-the-cuff impression and painting an entire nation with it.

3) You apparently did zero follow up checking on the ability to purchase authentic G.I. Zippos for $5, and your passing off of backpacker apocrypha about shooting animals (with a rocket launcher, no less) as a common, almost casual practice takes sloppy to a new level. Neither of those are about interpretation. It’s about passing hearsay off as fact.

4) Even in your comments, you continue to make similar errors:

I have not changed my views in that it is a shame that people only visit Vietnam in the interest of the war…

Only? ONLY?!?

Seriously? After all this, you haven’t shied away from these types of over-generalizations. Yes, many come here with an interest in the Vietnam-American War caricature they’ve seen from films, but it’s hardly the only reason people come.

If you really want to address these comments, post an apology clarifying those cases where you allowed your (very limited) impressions to parade as fact. Letting this article stand and calling it a difference of opinion undermines both the legitimacy of this publication and your status as a writer/editor.

Those who take the time to read these comments may have a greater sense of context that allows them to understand the country you’ve written about, but you know as well as I do that most will not take that time. You need to address this.

Well said Elliot. Add to that the headline. There is nothing new about tourism to the Cu Chi Tunnels.
We, the commenters, agree that you are wrong. You disagree with us. That’s about as far as agreeing to disagree will get.

I’ve heard this story about “shoot the cow with an RPG for $200″ since around 1980. I’ve heard it in Thailand, Burma, Cambordia, and Vietnam. I strongly suspect that it is an urban legend. I find it particularly interesting that the the price of shooting the RPG at the cow seems not to have changed in the 30 years since I first heard it!

Yes, there are places where you could have gone in the past to shoot weapons. But an RPG at a cow? Unless the author here has seen this firsthand, I’m very tempted to say that this is perhaps emblematic of this poor piece..